Making Jesus King by Force
At Saturday’s breakfast we considered the story of the feeding of the five thousand in John ch 6. We were all particularly struck by the comment in verse that the people wanted to come and make Jesus king by force. I’m not sure what that means or how that works. How do you insert someone as your king if that person doesn’t want it, or doesn’t want it that way.
And yet the church has insisted on doing this down through the ages, whether by the crusades, or forced conversions or at the point of a gun or, in more pietistic terms, by programmes and systems of evangelism and church growth. In NI in the next few weeks, some will try to make Jesus king by force in a series of big rallies in the Odyssey Arena. But Jesus will not have it this way….our way.
Instead, buried in same section of John’s Gospel is the hint of the Jesus way.
Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks, and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted. He did the same with the fish.
John 6:11
John in his account of the feeding of the 5,000 records these actions of Jesus as a conscious, but hidden, hint for those of us who are this side of the events of Holy Week. These words should call to mind for us the words of Jesus at the Last Supper before he moves out to Gethsemane and the subsequent events of his crucifixion.
If there is to be a king, that kingdom will be in inaugurated by self-sacrifice, by the washing of feet, by those who want to be first choosing the last place. It cannot be by force.
So this deceptively simple story lays out the stark choice, the two ways, and we must choose. The Way of force and might? Or, the Way of service and sacrifice? This is the choice we continually make. The choice the church continually makes.
One final thing. The sadness is that, in a sense, making him king by force is exactly what they did in the end. Pilate writes an inscription in three languages, Jesus the King of the Jews, only not the king anyone imagined.
Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews. Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek.
John 19:19,20
crookedshore 
It is interesting that your suggestions come as the elections in November approaches. So many Christians that by electing the “right” candidate, he can elucidate the proper ways in which we can make Christianity the forefront of the American nation. The problem that most of them don’t realize is that, if we were to elect a truly Christian leader, our nation would no longer be the greatest. He would steer us into a way where we would be the servants of the world—washing the world’s feet. We would have to make great sacrifice to truly elect a Christian leader.
Someone once wrote,
‘Some trust in chariots and some in horses (some even trust in missiles and guns) but we will trust in the name of Yahweh our God’ (Psa 20:7)
That’s an interesting verse ‘the people wanted to come and make Jesus king by force’, I hadn’t noticed that before. The choice of force and might vs service and sacrifice has been a major issue in bringing more of God’s kingdom onto this earth. I know what you mean concerning crusades where the main focus is how many people can be ‘converted’,before I was a christian I would have run a mile from such an event. Although the holy spirit can move powerfully at such meetings, and major events where christians can come together and worship God are so needed here. The major problem with the force and might approach is that it emphasises authority at the expense of relationship. This passage also reminds us that ultimately it is not up to us to try and ‘make’ people experience God, our job is to relate our experience of God and demonstrate his love through service to others. In this way God can move and his power is free to transform.
Like your comment on the issue of authority versus relationship. Very insightful. I think that’s key here. Good spot.
Interesting theory with intuitive appeal. I don’t think it’s that clear-cut, however, especially when you lump evangelism (persuasion) in with force (coercion). Lumping them together makes nice rhetoric but in my experience is often a smokescreen to excuse oneself from preaching to anyone but the choir.
The synoptics have Jesus traveling to the Gentile side of the lake after the feeding, where people come in droves with the sick for Jesus to heal. Perhaps the reason there were droves is because Jesus earlier told the healed demoniac to “go and tell” everyone what Jesus had done for him (Luke 8, Mark 5).
It’s easy to draw sharp lines between a supposed way of “force and might” vs. a way of “service and sacrifice.” I think you have a good point but make too much of it by lumping in evangelism and church growth. Evangelism (persuasion not coercion) is a clear imperative of the gospel. Unless we give up on the notion of a life after this, it appears to me that sharing the good news (which is a kingly, political term on Roman imperial inscriptions) is itself a way of “service and sacrifice.”
I’m not sure we are disagreeing John. The ‘force’ element for me, in terms of evangelism, is there in the systematising – that’s why I used the phrase ‘systems of evangelism and church growth’. It’s no secret that large evangelistic rallies seek to remove any doubt about converts by attending to lighting systems, voice tones, programming etc. all designed to lead to ‘inevitable’ decisions. Church growth models can do the same – do this this way and provide this and your church will grow. The system removes the role of the Holy Spirit, who alone does this work.
This seems to me an attempt by us to make Jesus King by force. What do you think?
interesting thread. useful. thanks
Good post–brief, to the point, and offering much to think on. I’m a few years late in finding it (it was posted in ’08, after all). Anyway, I’ve been thinking about Jesus’ fame–which clearly did spread in the gospels–but I’ve also been thinking about his avoiding having his identity fully known too soon, as well as his slipping away when the people sought to do things like seize him (to be king or kill him). Jesus: escape artist.
Anyway, thanks for the post.
I Have always seen Jesus (Yeshuah) as a mortal being and never associated him has been none other than the son Of man, Made manifest by god to become the the son of god: He was the son of David or the seed of David. There was no Virgin Birth (or not as the K J V or any other version which was copied from the K J V including the Catholic Bible; Mary was a virgin but after Joseph had been with her she was a virgin no more Yeshuah was A Prophet a Healer but more so a vessel for the Holy Spirit to Dwell in. He was Baptized in Water before He was to receive the Holy Spirit I’m sorry to get peoples backs up But The K J V was long after the original Geneva Bible (100 years after) where that bible K J V was forced upon us By the Roman C C. where it on the Coronation of James those that had the Geneva Bible were forced to part with it or face the chop if you want to know more I’m happy to reply
I once was a Pentecostal and in a sense I still am: I speak in tongues. Not only that: some time ago A young woman in her childhood Days had been messed about with. it would be too gruesome to write down details. but due this perverted man she was to loose blood from her back passage. more than four years would where Surgeons were to offer her a Colostomy. She choose not to. I laid hand on her she was cured in that instant Praise god. a young 19 year old with warts asked me to Cure him. One look up toward heaven and a smile as I held his Hand;The following day he approached me and said to me Look they’ve gone. That of which had happened was not My doing it was through the spirit within me. I do not for one minute accept any praise for what was done. I was just a vessel. So what made me Drift away from the A O G. That church as well as any other Pentecostal Church who boast being Protestant They Celebrate Christmas Easters Whitsuntide all of which are Pagan. Then there are other Facts They make out that he came down from Heaven thee only thing that came down from heaven was the Holy Spirit I’d like to write more
Jesus in himself was as Human as You as I ? albeit that some may call me a moron for saying such a thing, the K J V is a contradiction and a distortion of the truth. The Original Bible would have read differently? but just in case you have ideas in reading the Geneva Bible(forget It) a New Version of the Geneva Bible has been cosmetically changed to almost Mirror with the King James Bible? Someone out there is afraid for you to read the truth? Now although The k J V is thwarted, it is quite possible to find clues which contradict. Simply Find the Contradiction then when you have found the two versions; but them both side by side (You May need two Bibles to place them side by side and then open the pages at relevant Pages: remember this Only one answer can be true? you cannot Look at both stories and say that they are both true; Read your Bible? it tells you that David (king David) was to have an Affair with Bathsheba and that in order to cover up his Sin,{for she was pregnant: he arranged for Her Husband Uriah to be placed within the front line where it was hoped that he be killed on the Battlefield, and if this did not work Davids trusted men would have to murder Uriah. God discovered what he had done to Uriah, and has a punishment Bathsheba was to loose her baby. After Many weeks God kind of forgave David and then Told David that through Bathsheba his Seed (Davids Seed) would be past on through Generations until one day as in the Prophecy of Isiah and other Prophets, a child would be born and that he would become the Messiah. Joseph was the seed of David that had been chosen of which to present The Jews (not the world) with a Messiah. And has For Mary who’s Name was really Miri May have been a Virgin when she was betrothed to Joseph but after intercourse with her, her virginity was gone. If yo cannot bare to hear the truth, then I suggest that you continue to believing the garbage of which are doing already; Many Scholars throughout all history have tried to Give you the Whole truth where you have rejected it? it reminds me of a program on Television {Take your Pick) where Contestants are offered countless amounts of money for a key that might open a box that either contains a huge sum of money or a worthless prize? Some believe that if they refuse the money offered to them that they’d get a massive prize but end up with an item that is worth nothing at all, where they leave the studio with nothing. I am offering you the truth but you will reject it. You have been programmed, possibly by your Youth days at school or Sunday School or you have read the bible and found it to be what it is a contradiction. Now answer me this remembering that there can only be one truth Was Him in whom you Called Jesus Born of Man or was he Born like the contradiction says where you are told that Jesus was impregnated without natural fertilization Joseph having intercourse Jesus was begotten in a natural way [more to follow]
This valuable blog, “Making Jesus King by Force | crookedshore” satgean displays that you actually know what you r talking about!
I completely am in agreement. With thanks ,Liliana
I say to you that there will be a time that all men and women will realize that when it is all to late, that Him in whose Name was Called Jesus Christ was not his name but that of a mans name that did not exist. True there was a man who died on the Cross and that before he was to die This man whose Name I will tell you much later was born of man and became the son of God God was so pleased with him that he manifested it in his will that he not only should become the Messiah but to become the only begotten son? look at the Meaning Begot: it is a joining together of a man and woman where they have intercourse of which they then produce a child. If this was the Case where it was made out by the Roman Catholic Church and all other (The whore of Babylon) (and also her Harlot churches) that this Messiah was begotten by god(god having intercourse with Miri I think not ? No Joseph was her Husband they got together and were to have a child that was born to them. There was no Angel Gabriel that came along to Tell Joseph not to touch His wife. Joseph like like it not was the Seed of David and Yeshuah was his first born son. This Virgin birth of what supposedly Happened was all a concoction Lies of what the Roman catholic Church decided to put within the K J V of which many householders have within their Homes. For over 140 or so years before the K J bible there was the Geneva Bible a bible that could at one time be trusted.
Many Catholics through the Geneva Bible were to adopt the Church of England to be their true church. even the church of England was thwarted with much flaws, but these Vicar’s of Christ as they were to be called were shall we say were once appointed by the Roman catholic Church They were once devout Roman Catholic Priests. It was the Pilgrims that brought the word of God To Henry VIII who was Once defender of the Roman Catholic Church. This man would torture whole Families to death if the church of Rome ordered it to be so if anyone should speak evil of the Church. And yet this King if all was told about him: he would rather have a young boy on his bed than a woman? he had Syphilis He could not father a child and yet this man was thought to have had a child to one of his wives but in truth in order to cover up his shame of not been able to Father a child he allowed his wife to inn secret to perform with another man. The problem with this Henry would have passed his contagious disease unto his wife where any children that were born to her would be born with some Physical disorder> Henry seized the opportunity in with the Help of these Pilgrims in creating a New Church. He did not care too much about God. All he wanted to do was to Create his own church and also his own Parliament One of which He could make up his own Laws and the Other to get Married in
There were some good points that were worthy of the Protestant Church and that was the Banning of Christmas, Easter’s and Whitsuntide these were all proven to be pagan Festivals. So how come why are these festivals are all included within the Protestant churches of today?
Henry VIII was a coward and when he was approached by the Roman Catholic Church; where they offered him his life for the Church of England He like a dog with its tail between it legs Signed over the Church of England to Rome and for this they allowed him to live out is miserable existence as being like a puppet on a string. Although His name was on the Church door and that his seal was on the Doors of Parliament Henry VIII was dictated to where he was forced to amend many laws and also change them that would suit The church of Rome. Those Vicars of Christ as they were called were put under the thumb of the Church of Rome they would have to revert into being Slaves to Satan? They no longer had a free hand within the destiny of the church. Christmas Easters Whitsuntide were all brought back into the Churches. The Very men that had apposed the church of Rome were now to try and reason with Henry VIII to try and get him to restore the Church as it was. By now there were many Followers of the Pilgrims who’d try pursued the Protestants to hold onto the faith of what they had got and not to venture onto the Paths of unrighteousness of the ungodly? These men were a thorn in the Church of Romes side? Rome would order Henry VIII to Have all those that would oppose the Whore of Babylon brought to the Church Council. And as a reward for their bravery as in the days of the True God Fearing Disciples They were Judged Convicted and condemned to the most Painful and horrific Tortures that ever were construed by man Hung Drawn and quartered where both men and women and Children as a warning were forced to witness just in case they thought of setting themselves against the Church of Rome
Don’t you Know that this so called Virgin Birth was as I have said was a concoction of the church of Rome? this is why the Geneva Bible of which were the Backbone of Protestantism suddenly was to find its self being outlawed. Thousands of Years Before The Messiah was Born? Imagine a church that had sworn an alliance to Satan where they were to destroy all of that which the Creator loved Most of all (the Jews) This Church founded in Babylon would evolve and to change its theme from time to time but although changing some of its theme it would always keep embodied within the church of that which I am going to reveal? be patient with me and you will see?
This church of Babylon was to swear an oath to Satan that they would Keep the Church going For a Millennium of Millenniums,But how could they?Man is born to die! they could not make that promise unless they train others to follow on where they left off with. They dare not recruit people from within the congregation otherwise they’d have to reveal all to those recruits. It was simple? tell the Congregation to increase their number (have Many Children) give some Children away to the Church who were no younger than three but no older than seven, fill a child’s mind with all that is unholy and because that child’s is easily corrupted, He she, they become nothing more than uneducated within the realms of Salvation they would be unwittingly become tools of Satan?
Something else of which I should have mentioned the Original Priests and Priestess were supposedly to be as (to be continued)
Now let it be Known this occult had sworn an oath of Celibacy where priest and Priestess alike supposedly would keep that way. It was something of a farce? They the congregation were informed that should any of those vows be broken by the Priesthood they’d be stoned to death. you would imagine that they would stay in Celibacy. but no this was often proved to be wrong where the woman would be judged to be pregnant where she’d have to point out the Priest responsible. both would face death by stoning. Actions were Taken of which if the Priestess was to miss her periods she’d have to go through an abortion to try and make sure that no one would Know of their un-chastity. Now when the new recruits came along in the guise of young children given to the Church, many of these children would be interfered with from almost day one of them being accepted into the Church. These poor unfortunate children being innocent and void of reason were Brainwashed and were to be taught the way of the Evil and corrupt Church. And within their training (imagine) a child being void of reason having nonsense pushed and rammed down their minds not knowing right from wrong spreading a virus deleting that which was good right and proper causing confusion.
These Young Girls who’d one day become a priestess who in turn after being trained would in turn be given the Task of looking after some one else’s Child?
But as these Young Priestess were being Trained they’d be coached into believing that it was good right and proper for some evil perverse High priest to mess about with not only the child’s mind but also her body? Telling her that it was good right and proper to be turned into a whore a young girl who’d be told that if she was to get pregnant that she’d have to undergo an abortion. This abortion would be as if the fetus was something holy unto their god where there would be a ceremony an offering of the fetus unto god? It was told that the fetus would be taken up into heaven and be transformed into a Cherub where that baby would be like that of an angel where the Cherub would be with god pleasing him?
These Children of course would soon grow up and perhaps have many abortions and also Look after and train young boys and girls into priesthood.
Some now young women on having many abortions began to develop an instinct in wanting to mother their own Babies! This would often secure the young priestess Fate? an accident was arranged that would of course be no accident. Stumbling over a lose rock falling to her death over a high cliff or other so called accidents that would cover up the Priests vile actions. But say if the young girl was of a quality that all priests would crave for: Rather than Murder her she’d be forced to have an abortion and then spirited away into some far away dungeon and be kept there as Prisoner where they would treat her without compassion? But as you know, as a Rose blooms, one week it is beautiful for all to see but soon it starts to lose its appeal and therefore it is disregarded and thrown onto the heap to wither away and die?
Many Priestess to be would be in communes where as many as I’d hate to Guess. They’d converse with each other saying that how good it was that their god should think so highly of them that they he should take their babies into his wonderful Kingdom! others would talk differently about having their own baby of which they could hold and bring up in their own arms. unlucky for them as I have aforementioned.
There was a King of Babylon who trusted in the Church never suspecting evils of the Church. He was to Give one of his Daughters to the Church. Her name was Semiramis, she was in no way treated any better that all the other Children. Semiramis had been used and abused from her early days of childhood. By the time she was nine years of age (as it was wrote within some secret diary) a priest had quoted on how Semiramis was so Beautiful that all the priests High priests and other priests were attracted to her beauty. in turn they would have her as if she was a prize to behold.?
By the time Semiramis was twelve years old she had developed into a young woman with all that was splendid where once again the young Lass was to have these vile and evil scumbags have their own way with her? only this time she was to get pregnant? realizing that she had missed out on her periods, and knowing that she could be with child she began to fear the worse. Semiramis knew that some Girls who had undergone abortions had died through complications and would fear for her life! she Knew of Girls who would have been her age suddenly disappearing brought suspicion upon those facts.
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What could she do to escape the abortions and also of being spirited away.
Semiramis had to think fast on what to do? Having the knowledge on how to write she was to write maybe two messages of which would later be given to some person of which she could trust ?
Within these letters it would Name each and everyone of those priests whether they were high priests or not as being the potential father of her baby within Semiramis would have these messages sent to her King Father where the other would be given to a member of the Congregation which would then reveal that what was going on behind the Closed doors of the Communes. They were as a security in order to hold against the priests Murdering her?
Now armed with the Letters safely placed into the hands of someone she could trust: Semiramis was to approach the Priests explaining to them that she was pregnant and that if they were contemplating aborting her child within or as much as murdering her there were letters of safeguard awaiting to be dispatched? she would go on to say that if they could not come up with an idea where she could keep both her own life and that of her baby within they’d know what to expect? The Church of Babylon would fall under the Kings commands and then the Congregation of that church might easily turn against them(more to follow)
(Sorry seems as though some of what I wrote has not been Pasted)
I will try again
Semiramis was to leave the high priests as she still feared the worse! she went with haste to the commune where she felt safe As she sat down at the dressing table she looked into the polished silver mirror where she’d brush or comb her hair it was then that in order to comfort herself: as she went through her hair she’d talk to herself saying Semiramis”Semiramis No wonder why all those priests went with you for you are the most beautiful woman within the whole of Babylon and Egypt.
Suddenly she was to have an inspiration! was it from Satan or was it her own Imagination running wild? That I cannot tell but what went through her mind one day would be the biggest lie where all the world would accept as being the whole truth?
for in her vision she visualized god was saying to Her, ”Semiramis ” Semiramis as you are the most beautiful and virtuous of all women throughout the whole of Babylon I am going to put my seed within you and that you shall bare me a child and that child will represent me upon earth where that child shall be able to read the Oracle —–
Semiramis would save
Semiramis was to go and tell the priests of what she had concocted. at first The priests would suggest that they might as well volunteer themselves to the crowd and stand into the pit and be stoned to death because no one would believe her story? Semiramis was almost ready for turning tail and running away! But then a young Priest shouted for her to come back where he was to say that it just might work? what if they were to bribe say two midwives (midwives who’d not be able to spend there money for they’d end up dead a few days later)these midwives would be able to tell the congregation the biggest lie of all times where they would tell the Congregation that they had examined the Hymen of Semiramis and found it to be intact what a concoction of lies that were to be told on that day as the high priests with haste made a procession of young Priests and young girls who were not yet old enough to be called priestess Young alter boy would walk in front of the procession of all that were there swing the Incense where the whole temple reeked with the stuff People within and without the Temple would see and Hear chanting as they would Chant Hail Semiramis Hail Semiramis Queen of Heaven Blessed is they womb above all women.
She was to be carried and then placed before the People where then the High priest would announce that God had favor in her and had placed his seed within her that she might bare him a child that would be his representative upon earth and that the child should be worshiped and adored as gods Sun god. where the child would read the oracles.
There was the odd one or two who were doubters but when the Midwives stood up and proclaimed the Biggest lie ever told that would ultimately be told and believed for many Millennium’s to come that Semiramis’ Hymen was intact. Priests would now bow down before her and worship her? of course it was all a farce because the priests did not care a damn about Semiramis it was that they were trapped like a coiled snake wrapped about them. These priest who once had power over Semiramis were now to be placed second in line?
more to follow
all the time i used to read smaller posts that also clear their motive, and that is also happening with
this article which I am reading at this time.